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Sep. 12th, 2010 | 03:37 pm

CHAT ANONYMOUSLY ABOUT STUFF: General Anon Meme


It is what all the cool memes are doing nowadays!

The only rule is, don't be a total passive-aggressive douche. This isn't the place to spew all your vitriolic unrequited blackrom feelings for other members of of our dear fandom--or if you can't resist, at least don't mention them by name, that shit is just a little too petty. If it gets out of hand I'll ban you so fast Karkat would be impressed.

Other than that, hop to it, anons. And TITLE YOUR THREADS it could get pretty confusing all up in here if you didn't!



PS, as one kind anon pointed out, if you want to see the comments in chronological order instead of thread format, put ?view=flat after html in the URL. Or click here, whatever.
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Comments {5509}

Re: The smell of slasher buttfury in the morning

from: anonymous
date: Jul. 21st, 2011 01:35 am (UTC)
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But, since there's only a few characters, it isn't exactly damning to the author if none of them are girls.

Except when it is, because as a result girls literally never get written.

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Re: The smell of slasher buttfury in the morning

from: anonymous
date: Jul. 21st, 2011 01:38 am (UTC)
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girls literally never get written.

You...are trolling, right?

Either that or you have never actually read any fanfiction in this fandom

right?

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THIS!

from: anonymous
date: Jul. 21st, 2011 01:39 am (UTC)
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Seriously, if slashers could just take that one moment's consideration where they're incorporating a dude character in their story, ask themselves "hey, could a girl work just as well in this role?", and then choose the girl, this wouldn't be a problem.

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Re: THIS!

from: anonymous
date: Jul. 21st, 2011 02:49 am (UTC)
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TBH, I would say this isn't even quite the problem. The problem isn't just that the girl characters' screentime gets downgraded to nonexistence, it's that their emotional importance to the boy characters gets downgraded too.

Since JohnKat seems to be the major point of contention as of late, let's take the fanon perpetuated by shippers that Karkat has all the self-worth of a dog turd - which is true - and John is the only one who can ~accept~ him and his mutant blood and make him see how much he means to him even if he doesn't mean anything to anyone else - which is so not true. Where is Terezi, who fucking loves Karkat for so much more than just his candy blood? Where is Kanaya, who's able to get past the ragebarrel exterior and even temper his seething hate for everything? Hell, where's Sollux, who puts up with all the shit KK slings and then some? Karkat has so many people, girls and boys both, who care about him, and JohnKat shippers want to completely negate that so Karkat can wallow in manpain and John can take him into his arms and kiss the tears away.

It's a lot of convoluted OOC bullshit concocted specifically to wipe out the girls and make room for yaoi whitecock.

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Re: THIS!

from: anonymous
date: Jul. 21st, 2011 03:02 am (UTC)
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How much John/Karkat do you read? Because I read a good bit of it and I hardly ever see anything about John being the only one to accept him or his blood color. Blood color is brought up occasionally but it's typically from Karkat's POV and, let's face it, he still rips on himself in canon even after everyone already knows and doesn't seem to care much.

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Re: THIS! - (Anonymous) - Expand
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Re: THIS!

from: anonymous
date: Jul. 31st, 2011 02:01 am (UTC)
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I think you have two problems here.

1) slash
2) ooc fics

Certainly these things are not mutually exclusive but they aren't mutually inclusive, either. You can have slash fics that are not out of character.

I'm absolutely with you 100% on hating out of character fics. I would be disgusted if I read a John/Karkat fic that went like that. I would also be disgusted by a het fic that went similarly. Or a femmeslash fic.

If I were going to write your closing sentence over again, I would reword it though:

"It's a lot of convoluted OOC bullshit concocted specifically to make the characters behave the way you want them to."

Because I think John/Karkat can exist without erasing any female characters. I think it can exist without being ooc. Does that mean everyone writes it that way? Sadly, no. But that could be said for any pairing.

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Re: THIS! - (Anonymous) - Expand

Re: The smell of slasher buttfury in the morning

from: anonymous
date: Jul. 21st, 2011 01:54 am (UTC)
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Except they are written. Really, it's not that hard to find. Do you even read slash fic at all?

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The Jenniführer

Re: The smell of slasher buttfury in the morning

from: cephiedvariable
date: Jul. 21st, 2011 12:02 pm (UTC)
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Okay just stepping in to note that the kink meme is not all of fandom or even the center of fandom. It's popular, yes, but no more so than AO3 and tumblr. You can't just troll through the kinkmeme (which has a lot of quality, I admit, but is often lowest common denominator due to the nature of it's function) and be like: "THIS REPRESENTS ALL OF FANDOM 100% TRUE REALITY."

If you line up the most popular John/Karkat fics in the fandom - urbanAnchorite's stuff, half_life_wolf, Promstuck, Never Trust A Troll, Mostly Harmless - or look at the really popular artists like shelby or geromy or shatterstag or owlpellets or inverts you find stories in which the girls appear in large roles as well as fans who adore the girls and draw/write them pretty frequently.

There is a subset of Homestuck fandom that is only concerned with slash/male characters and there are quite a few John/Karkat shippers in that leg of fandom. But there are also Dave/John, Dave/Tavros, Gamzee/Tavros and Sollux/Eridan shippers ect. and none of them ever get the shit that the John/Karkat fans do, esp. since most of the John/Karkat fans who actually get shit are the ones who hang out in the main part of fandom and write/draw/love the girls. The slash only fans are off in their own little corner doing their only little thing and never have to deal with these complaints or this stigma.

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Re: The smell of slasher buttfury in the morning

from: anonymous
date: Jul. 21st, 2011 12:30 pm (UTC)
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Yeah I've been having a bit of cognitive dissonance between this thread and what I've seen of John/Karkat fans on Tumblr and AO3. I'm usually prone to being one of those lady-centric fans who suspects slashers of hating on female characters but this has been blatantly untrue of most of the John/Karkat shippers I've encountered. (Who may or may not be representative, but still)

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Dab-Dab says I'm very untidy

Re: The smell of slasher buttfury in the morning

from: ormery
date: Jul. 21st, 2011 12:49 pm (UTC)
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YEAH BASICALLY

I kept thinking, reading these threads – if these folks are so vehemently unfond of John/Karkat it seems profoundly unlikely that they have read more John/Karkat than I have? AND YET THEY SEEM TO HAVE SEEN SO MUCH STUFF THAT I HAVEN'T.........

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Re: The smell of slasher buttfury in the morning

from: anonymous
date: Jul. 21st, 2011 03:03 pm (UTC)
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Go look at page 11.

Also for the record, I fucking hate Gamzee/Tavros and I'm far from the only one. It's come up on this meme before even.

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Re: The smell of slasher buttfury in the morning

from: anonymous
date: Jul. 21st, 2011 03:17 pm (UTC)
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I think people are focusing so much on John/Karkat not because it's THE plague ship, but because it's emblematic of the plague. John/Karkat is easy to point fingers at because (1) it's the juggernaut slash ship, (2) it's male protag/male protag which is the recipe for white cock no matter how you slice it, and (3) while its problematic elements are not as exaggerated as in many of the other slash ships, it does have them. (And (4) John is canonically not a homosexual.)

Slash in general is the problem. John/Karkat just puts itself out there as the most readily available target.

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Re: The smell of slasher buttfury in the morning

from: anonymous
date: Jul. 21st, 2011 03:50 pm (UTC)
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So it's inherently bad and wrong to ship privledged people (white males) together, regardless of whether it's a canonical/plausible ship or not. Okay, got it.

Have fun waging war on something that's been a cornerstone of female fandom since the 1960's and Star Trek. Maybe you should try fighting forms of sexism that are actually hurting people in real life?

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The Jenniführer

Re: The smell of slasher buttfury in the morning

from: cephiedvariable
date: Jul. 21st, 2011 04:37 pm (UTC)
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Slash in general is the problem.

Slash in general is the problem.

Slash in general is the problem.

Slash in general is the problem.

Slash in general is the problem.


Okay, are you serious? There is a certain problematic mindset that goes on within subsets of the slash community that I'm quite familiar with, but that does not mean the very act of slashing male characters itself is inherently problematic. The misogyny that goes on in slash circles is very similar to the bullshit that goes on in het circles as well (in other fandoms at least).

But you're also missing my point which is that these complaints and this paternalistic "but dear don't you understand shipping two boys together helps the patriarchy because some fans behave very very badly" attitude is rarely even lobbied against the people who actually do behave badly. The reason a lot of John/Karkat shippers complain is because it's mostly the ones who ship het, ship femmeslash and like the girls who get the brunt of all this anti-popular ship backlash wrapped up in feminist critique and they get annoyed because they're being judged on implicitly moral grounds for things they aren't actually doing.

And it is just popular ship backlash otherwise people would be complaining more about all the graphic revenge fantasies Gamzee/Tavros fans used to come up with re: Vriska or that a lot of Dave/John writers don't seem to realize Rose and Jade exist (up to the author of their most popular fic admitting that she doesn't like them) or that there are Eridan/Sollux fans who hate Feferi desperately despite the fact that their entire ship hinges on her existence. I never see anyone talking about that shit when discussions about the HS slash fandom comes up except briefly in passing because everyone's more interested in being buttmad about John/Karkat even daring to exist like it's so unusual for a "most popular" ship to emerge in fandom.

My point was that it is not morally bad to slash and it's not morally bad to like John/Karkat and the "problem" of the female characters being erased or bashed in fic and art is not the fault of the people who usually end up on the receiving end of discussions like this. If you want to discuss the problems in the Homestuck slash community, then discuss them. I'm not a terribly big fan of it myself. But at least identify what the actual problem is. :/

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Re: The smell of slasher buttfury in the morning

from: anonymous
date: Jul. 21st, 2011 11:26 pm (UTC)
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Ceph this is an anon meme. You are supposed to be anon. When people do what you are doing, especially if they are a big name like you are, it kind of comes across like they are throwing their weight around. I know that is not your intention but it still irks.

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