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Sep. 12th, 2010 | 03:37 pm

CHAT ANONYMOUSLY ABOUT STUFF: General Anon Meme


It is what all the cool memes are doing nowadays!

The only rule is, don't be a total passive-aggressive douche. This isn't the place to spew all your vitriolic unrequited blackrom feelings for other members of of our dear fandom--or if you can't resist, at least don't mention them by name, that shit is just a little too petty. If it gets out of hand I'll ban you so fast Karkat would be impressed.

Other than that, hop to it, anons. And TITLE YOUR THREADS it could get pretty confusing all up in here if you didn't!



PS, as one kind anon pointed out, if you want to see the comments in chronological order instead of thread format, put ?view=flat after html in the URL. Or click here, whatever.
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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 04:36 am (UTC)
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Don't forget WV the champion because why should a queen get to wear the queen's ring?

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 04:45 am (UTC)
Link

"the other one's ancestor turns out to worship Karkat's ancestor as messiah"

"Her mother knew and/or shared beliefs with his father so that cancels out anything Terezi herself did or believed."

Reaching much?

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 04:47 am (UTC)
Link

Remember when Kanaya was dead?

It's premature to think that Rose's decisions will never be explored, or that Vriska will never come back to life.

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 04:48 am (UTC)
Link

I disagree that Vriska being dead somehow mars her character. If in your opinion killing a character automatically invalidates their importance to the plot I'm not sure what to tell you. I've never found myself lacking in Terezi, as she has tons more screen time than most of the other trolls, and I don't think it's a matter of "let's count panels to see whether or not I should be angry about this." She's proved herself to be incredibly relevant. On screen and everything, which is more than can be said about Gamzee.

No, I understood that complaint, I just disagreed. Yes it could change the dynamic between them (which we haven't seen yet at all), but the ancestors' stories are practically a mythos, filled with revenge and revolution and dark romances and there's going to be shifting power imbalances in a story like that (if you even consider this an imbalance at such an early stage). To me it felt more like she was showing her belief in the Sufferer's ideals, but hey. We know so little about that dynamic that I don't personally find it degrading to her in any way.

As for Rose, isn't there a ton of other stuff in canon we just don't understand yet? Or things that we didn't understand or weren't relevant for the longest time? I don't think just because Rose is female the unexplained motivations become an example of neglect of her character, because yeah, grimdark was a pretty big deal and it'd be terrible storytelling to leave it unexplained, so I'm reserving judgement. As for the suicide mission I understand your argument, but again, I disagree. To me it was about the both of them, shown to us more from Dave's point of view because in this situation Rose held all the cards. It wasn't supposed to be obvious that she was stealing the mission. Once it was my reaction was "Oh, this is a Rose problem that is being looked at from Dave's point of view for suspense while simultaneously explaining some of his issues." Maybe that's just me.

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 04:57 am (UTC)
Link

You're right. Redglare wanting a better and more compassionate world is such bullshit. Her coming to believe in equality before the law, without the benefit of visions or memories, in no way makes her an amazing person. Her work to bring justice to Alternia is completely invalidated because some of her ideals may have been inspired by an icky boy.



If only Homestuck had more Strong Female Characters.

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 04:58 am (UTC)
Link

It doesn't mar her character, it just makes her a shitty counter-example for this discussion. The girls that do really important stuff get, at best, the panel count needed to show it, while Karkat gets ridiculous amounts of plot time even when he's not doing anything much. Vriska's the only exception to this and she's the only one of the major group that's dead.

To me it felt more like she was showing her belief in the Sufferer's ideals

No, that is the complaint, okay? It's annoying that his role is to be Jesus and tell the masses the truth, and her role is to realize he's right and follow him.

As for Rose, isn't there a ton of other stuff in canon we just don't understand yet?

It isn't about not understanding canon, it's about not understanding her character. Rose and Jade both do most things off camera.

How much do we understand about John and Dave's powers? How much did we see both of them using their powers? How much do we understand about why John and Dave have done what they've done throughout the comic? We have had both their game abilities and inner workings shown in the main comic in great detail. The closest we get for the girls is Doc Scratch explaining how Seer powers work in general.

If any of the particular examples were the one and only example then you can always say that there could be a story reason for that choice. It's that it's been a pattern now for half the comic. Exactly when does it stop being just a coincidence?

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 05:03 am (UTC)
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She's wearing his fucking symbol while Scratch talks about his cult. This is not about Redglare being so awesome she realized things sucked. It's about the Sufferer being so awesome Redglare is one of his many followers.

But clearly thinking it's a bit unbalanced to have one character DIE FOR EVERYONE'S SINS and the other be into justice is just me thinking boys suck. Thanks, internet.

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 05:09 am (UTC)
Link

Just wondering, anon, do you remember just how far back it was Rose dropped off the edge of plot? Because I used to be saying people were unfair and I was sure that we'd be getting to her next.

Exactly how long have you decided people have to wait before it stops being premature?

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 05:12 am (UTC)
Link

His teachings would also persist through surviving disciples, but in hushed tones. His following would dwindle to an obscure cult facing persecution for centuries. After his execution, the body was burned leaving only his irons. They cooled in the ash, as if his anger itself was subsiding, and his followers appropriated their shapes in defiance of the Highbloods. The symbols became the sign of the Signless, always shown as colorless as the cold iron, to conceal the stigma of his hue. This was as much a reminder to his followers to remain hidden as it was of the Sufferer's sacrifice, and his rage hidden like heat in the iron, one day to be reignited by another of his bloodline.

The Sufferer preached that after he passed, another Signless would come, heralding the end times for their planet. The Second Signless would continue his work, and lead his people to glory beyond this realm. The followers kept his teachings alive for ages, even as the uproar surrounding the movement subsided. By modern times, the Sufferer's scripture was little more than ancient superstition all but forgotten. Hardly the anathema of old. But the followers had already made their preparations in the shadows, and when the Second Signless finally came he would have a lusus to raise him and a sign to his name.


Please point me to the part you're getting all this about how Redglare is so cool for believing in justice and only dumb feminazis would think this is anything but a 110% equality.

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 05:12 am (UTC)
Link

Nah.

You cry sexism, but you're the one who insists on downplaying Redglare here, on the basis of one image and some very vague implications that have not at all been fleshed out in the text.

Also you're being incredibly dismissive of women who've done amazing things but who have drawn some of their ideals from male thinkers. ie pretty much all of them.

If you're looking for "balance", then compare the Sufferer to the Condesce, who directed troll society, ruled her people for literally thousands of years, and built a galaxy-spanning empire.

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 05:14 am (UTC)
Link

What is wrong with Redglare agreeing with the Sufferer's ideals, especially when she had them because she also knew somewhere deep down that Alternia was once a better place?

If you are saying that she must have only been into justice because of the Sufferer I think you need to take a step back.

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 05:17 am (UTC)
Link

Was Joan of Arc less awesome because she believed in biblical teachings written by men?

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 05:18 am (UTC)
Link

It's annoying that his role is to be Jesus and tell the masses the truth, and her role is to realize he's right and follow him.

I...feel like you're reaching here. The only example we have seen of Redglare's link to the Sufferer is that she believes in his ideals. In no way does this equate to "shut up and follow the leader." Would you honestly consider it wrong for any character to follow another's example?

The closest we get for the girls is Doc Scratch explaining how Seer powers work in general.

I agree with you about Jade in that she needs more screen-time because hey, she's doing something very important right now (though it doesn't feel like off-screen development to me, as basically everything was directly explained to us in her pesterlogs with trolls. On-screen). Hussie's got a huge canon and sometimes I wish he'd focus on parts he doesn't focus on as much. But are you also incredibly angry about Gamzee not getting his fair share of screen-time compared to his plot relevance?

As for Rose, again, I'm simply going to have to disagree. Just because she doesn't come out and state "I am going to break the game because I am confused and angry and thirteen and in mourning and denial and having my thought processes tinted by dark forces" doesn't mean that she isn't. Um. Doing those things. That's part of her character; she keeps her issues locked up and her friends guessing. Honestly I feel like a lot of the mystery surrounding her is intentional because she is dangerous. Her powers aren't explained because she makes a conscious decision to ignore the way the game wants her to develop, and it bites her in the ass later. Terezi on the other hand gets an entire doomed timeline to explain her powers, not to mention the in-depth example of her coin-flipping timeline-creating ways earlier on.

It's that it's been a pattern now for half the comic.

I don't think I'm going to be able to convince you otherwise, but I believe this is a case of only seeing what you expected to see. Is Jade neglected? Yes. Do I want to see how Rose's plans pan out? Of course. Are Terezi and Vriska and Rose and Jade and Aradia and Kanaya awesome, important characters who get lots of on-screen development and relationships with both the boys and one another? Definitely.

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 05:19 am (UTC)
Link

As she rockets to her doom in a suicide mission to save everyone

hmmm

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 05:21 am (UTC)
Link

She's wearing his symbol as Scratch talks about his cultists wearing his symbol and setting up the second coming so his reincarnation could save them. Do you think that actually Scratch was talking about a completely different group of people who wore his symbol and that picture is there by chance?

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 05:22 am (UTC)
Link

Anyone ever inspired by Gandhi was a mindless woman slave

All female Buddhists are downtrodden

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 05:27 am (UTC)
Link

Wow, you're seriously doing the thing where you argue that because it can happen there's nothing sketchy about an author choosing to do it like that. Clearly I'm bothered because I hate Redglare now and think she sucks for this.

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 05:29 am (UTC)
Link

Oh shit I'm being oppressed by Ghandi and I didn't even realise it. What a terrible person I am, agreeing with men</>.

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 05:29 am (UTC)
Link

So that makes it okay to make the completely alien race also have their bible be about a guy? What the fuck are you trying to argue here?

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 05:30 am (UTC)
Link

Is it just so hard to enjoy a fucking update? What is wrong with this place?

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 05:31 am (UTC)
Link

ummm how did you not understand their argument, exactly?

i really don't understand yours. oh no, it's a dude bible!!!

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 05:33 am (UTC)
Link

You hate Redglare for this? Seriously? For all the preaching you do, you sure do turn on women awful fast.

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 05:35 am (UTC)
Link

The whole goddamn point is that it's not enjoyable for those of us who are tired of having the male experience privileged to death and back. Nice for you that you have the privilege to overlook that, I guess.

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 05:36 am (UTC)
Link

I'm not a man, you presumptive asshole.

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Re: Karkat confirmed for Gary Stu

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 13th, 2011 05:41 am (UTC)
Link

Okay.

Repeating from downthread, say I'm a Buddhist. Is that sketchy because the Buddha was male?

Honestly your argument is...baffling to me. Are fictional women only allowed to ever relate in certain ways to men and each other and never have admiration for any of them, even if they share all the same ideals or genuinely have the means of making the world a better place? How is Redglare's situation sketchy in this context?

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