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Sep. 12th, 2010 | 03:37 pm

CHAT ANONYMOUSLY ABOUT STUFF: General Anon Meme


It is what all the cool memes are doing nowadays!

The only rule is, don't be a total passive-aggressive douche. This isn't the place to spew all your vitriolic unrequited blackrom feelings for other members of of our dear fandom--or if you can't resist, at least don't mention them by name, that shit is just a little too petty. If it gets out of hand I'll ban you so fast Karkat would be impressed.

Other than that, hop to it, anons. And TITLE YOUR THREADS it could get pretty confusing all up in here if you didn't!



PS, as one kind anon pointed out, if you want to see the comments in chronological order instead of thread format, put ?view=flat after html in the URL. Or click here, whatever.
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Re: AS OF TODAY'S UPDATE 8/13

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 14th, 2011 02:41 pm (UTC)
Link

This. She's important enough to... not get any canonical description that isn't about how faithful and devoted she is. Whoop de fucking doo.

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Re: AS OF TODAY'S UPDATE 8/13

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 14th, 2011 02:42 pm (UTC)
Link

It's practically a monument to gender roles.

He's found and raised by a woman, but being his first relationship doesn't mean she's too important. The one who is important to him joined because...she had a crush on him? The only one of the gang who's given actual reason to join is Sollcestor. The two women seem to have just known on sight that he was a Very Important Man Who Needed Their Support.

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Re: AS OF TODAY'S UPDATE 8/13

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 14th, 2011 02:48 pm (UTC)
Link

I like the prompt as well. The friendship rather than romance angle is only really an issue when it's being used to marginalize the relationship. I wouldn't care if it did have Karcestor banging all the dudes he wants on the side so long as his relationship with Nepcestor is still the one that mattered to him. It'd be a cool reversal of the usual bromance > het romance you see in media.

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Re: AS OF TODAY'S UPDATE 8/13

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 14th, 2011 02:53 pm (UTC)
Link

Argh exactly. Since, like I said, I am this massive Karkat<>Kanaya fan, I want to really like the stuff with the Dolorosa and the Signless, but the fact that she has no actual reason to abandon her previous life other than THIS WIGGLER IS OBVIOUSLY SPECIAL ... :/

Like maybe if she herself was in some kind of trouble that meant she had to flee the caverns? That would be more compelling, imo

IDK, even with it the way it is, I'd kind of like to see some fanfiction where her reaction isn't just straight up THE CHILD IS SPECIAL so much as, say, "gosh, it sure is unfair that this child will never have a chance to survive because he is the wrong colour" and then deciding after much deliberation that she would give him that chance herself, or something, and started questioning the hemospectrum
Or perhaps she had always questioned the hemospectrum and that's why she was sympathetic to the baby Signless's plight in the first place
that would be kind of nice, I would like to see that explored!

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Re: AS OF TODAY'S UPDATE 8/13

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 14th, 2011 03:00 pm (UTC)
Link

All in all the problem still comes down to the Jesus-figure being a(nother) dude instead of a woman.

Even that could have worked if Hussie just hadn't thrown in so damn many Jesus parallels. The Sufferer has visions of how things could be. He tells people who already don't like things that it doesn't have to be this way. He's fine as a prophet, he doesn't need to have the son-of-god scripture powers where it's a woman's highest duty to write down what he said. Making it all about his brilliant scripture and special destiny is why all the relationships are so unbalanced.

It's removing from Karcestor every reason I'm 0kay with Karkat being team leader. Karkat isn't special, he isn't infallible, it's not that his advice is always great, he's nice and cares about everyone so he keeps things together. If Karcestor was just about his visions and they were all united by a common belief instead of his beliefs, it wouldn't be such a problem.

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Re: AS OF TODAY'S UPDATE 8/13

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 14th, 2011 03:02 pm (UTC)
Link

yes yes yes

You just put into words exactly what has been bothering me about the Sufferer & co., THANK YOU

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Re: AS OF TODAY'S UPDATE 8/13

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 14th, 2011 03:06 pm (UTC)
Link

That would have been much better. It would even make sense for her to be the one to believe the hemospectrum is wrong and teach baby Karcestor that. Jadebloods show that the mother grub is right in the middle of the spectrum, not the highest, and she'd see all colors of wigglers succeeding and failing down there. And then this one is there and despite succeeding at trials is doomed because there's nothing of its blood to pick it, so she intervenes.

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Re: AS OF TODAY'S UPDATE 8/13

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 14th, 2011 08:29 pm (UTC)
Link

Seriously. All the slashers I know seem rather chill about it all.

Slashers are USED to their ships not being canon. It's what happens when you ship two dudes in a hetonormative world. Most of the whining over canon ships I've seen in most fandoms comes from competing het ships. (Rose vs Martha. Akane vs Ukyou vs Shampoo. Etc, etc.)

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Re: The smell of slasher buttfury in the morning

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 14th, 2011 09:15 pm (UTC)
Link

i'm over a week late, but this post is amazing

not sarcastically, i appreciate it enough to post in this horrible thread just to tell you so in case you check back. this and the post you made before it, both are evidently written by someone with a solid reasonable mind who understands how to hold an argument.

as a cisgendered straight woman, i will never be able to know your experience on a subjective level and i don't want to cheapen it by comparing it to mine, so instead i'm just stating that i'm really glad to have read it and would like to thank you for sharing it

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Re: AS OF TODAY'S UPDATE 8/13

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 14th, 2011 10:08 pm (UTC)
Link

So you now anticipate that all people who prefer writing slash will be furious at any inkling of het, even though we've all been reading the same relatively heteronormative comic this entire time?

I don't really understand ancestor ships, regardless of whether one writes slash or het. Aside from Mindfang, they're voiceless, archetypical characters with archetypical traits. It's not that I find these updates uninteresting, despite being really problematic in terms of gender; I just don't know the characters enough to be personally invested in them or to want to ship them. They're not given voices or interpersonal dynamics to replicate...

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homestucksecrets.tumblr.com/post/8910023274

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 14th, 2011 10:09 pm (UTC)
Link

Not sure I agree with the poster's focus on "truly bad art" or that it's killing fandom, but I wish things weren't only positive comments with the occasional total dick like Johnslashhaterdude. I love having crit on the table too because otherwise I don't know if I just suck and everyone's too nice to say so.

There was a thread for this on the fora, but it's pretty dead and I'd feel like an attention whore posting there anyway.

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Re: AS OF TODAY'S UPDATE 8/13

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 14th, 2011 10:30 pm (UTC)
Link

It's removing from Karcestor every reason I'm 0kay with Karkat being team leader. Karkat isn't special, he isn't infallible, it's not that his advice is always great, he's nice and cares about everyone so he keeps things together.

Yes!

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Re: AS OF TODAY'S UPDATE 8/13

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 14th, 2011 10:35 pm (UTC)
Link

Well, there's other stuff to do with characters besides shipping.

A lot of people originally seemed like they were writing it as a canon AU, where the ancestors were like the main characters but in a different setting. And other people like developing minor characters or worlds, and there's more than enough hints here to do that.

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Re: homestucksecrets.tumblr.com/post/8910023274

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 14th, 2011 10:45 pm (UTC)
Link

Thanks anon, now I'm reading Homestucksecrets when I have better things to do :P then I hit the one about 24 being too old for the fandom and had to stop

I did like the crit thread on the forums, back when I still went there, but it's hard to tell if people want crit in other contexts, especially for art. I find I get a lot more constructively critical comments on fic than art, but to be honest I think I like it that way, I can get irrationally defensive in response to art crit.

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Re: AS OF TODAY'S UPDATE 8/13

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 14th, 2011 11:36 pm (UTC)
Link

Yes! Thank you, that's so much more coherent. I'd just really like to know these characters before thinking about shipping at all, because in canon it seems we're not given much to work with.

If there are works where people are developing backgrounds for them, I'd be really interested in reading those!

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Re: AO3 prompt meme!

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 15th, 2011 12:39 am (UTC)
Link

Ok, this is way less than a month, but I got impatient :) Can I be unscreened please?

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Re: AO3 prompt meme!

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 15th, 2011 12:56 am (UTC)
Link

It is done!

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Re: AO3 prompt meme!

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 15th, 2011 01:14 am (UTC)
Link

Sweet, thanks!

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Re: homestucksecrets.tumblr.com/post/8910023274

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 15th, 2011 02:15 am (UTC)
Link

This fandom is honestly the worst kind of fandom. It paints itself as a hugbox, but it's filled with people bitching and wanking behind each other's backs. Either bring it all out or go home.

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Re: homestucksecrets.tumblr.com/post/8910023274

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 15th, 2011 02:21 am (UTC)
Link

It's gotten a lot better about that! When I joined fandom, it was all about how everyone was friends, so people would be total assholes sometimes to anyone outside the groupthink and it'd get papered over because everyone was friends so if you complain you must not be a friend. Really nasty. This is much healthier than that was.

That said, I am fully in support of bringing it.

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Speech issues

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 15th, 2011 12:08 pm (UTC)
Link

I kind of talked like Tavros before reading Homestuck. Well, while reading Homestuck as well, until Hivebent-ish.

Am I grateful that this made me hyper-aware and, subsequently, cured me of start/stopping in chatlogs, comments, and forums online? Yeah! Sure.

Before changing that, though, did I also get a little bit PO'd every time I said "um" and people assumed I was faking being a frickin' fictional character? Maybe, just a little bit.

(Not that I don't adore Tavros.)

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Re: Speech issues

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 15th, 2011 06:16 pm (UTC)
Link

RPers on my flist have complained about people using the troll typing quirks in OOC chat too - it's one of those trends that annoy people about Homestuck fandom. But putting in some 'um's doesn't seem that annoying if you're not going full-out toggle case and excessive commas, sheesh.

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Rant: people need to lower their expectations for Homestuck already

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 15th, 2011 07:01 pm (UTC)
Link

I have been reading MSPA since the middle of Problem Sleuth. I tend to find post-Hivebent fans incredibly irritating. Wait! It's not for the reason you think it is! I don't really give a shit about fantrolls, or about the exponentially inflated fanbase. It's because so many goddamn people never cease complaining because they have completely wrong expectations about what Homestuck is about.

I am very frustrated by the fact that so many people who went out and got their friends into Homestuck with the promise that it was this magical gesamtkunstwerk where the entire point is the sexy adventures of a CANONICALLY!!! polyamorous bisexual alien race and all of the characters are Awesome Ladies. Or something. Never mind the fucking fact that on the front goddamn page of the website is the human boy who is the main character, and that the trolls are minor characters compared to the kids, and they appear relatively late into the comic.

(I remember distinctly, before Homestuck really blew up, all these evangelists on Fandom Secrets responding to every "my fandom treats its female characters badly!" secret with stuff like "join Homestuck fandom, we're pretty much the best at female characters ;) ." And all this too while the worst of the Vriska-bashing was going on. Vomit.)

So is it any fucking surprise that people who read Homestuck because of its supposed promotion of progressive ideals (lol) are consistently disappointed and wangsting eternal?

Pro-fucking-tip: The trolls are not the entire point of the comic. Furthermore, they were never intended to be positive portrayals of the alternative sexualities of humans. (I seriously do not understand why anyone was ever under the impression that a system of "romance," for a violent, vicious race of aliens, which completely lacks anything resembling human love or mutual respect and is instead based around hatred and pity, was intended to be a positive, uplifting portrayal of human polyamory.)

But most of all, Homestuck has not, and never will be, a shining monument to progressive ideals. From the very beginning MSPA has never even come close to being SJ appropriate and anybody who told you otherwise is a goddamn liar. (Anybody who read Problem Sleuth could have told you this. Ethnic Cheer mural, anyone?) So it drives me nuts when people flip out about how "I was promised a story about polyamorous bisexual aliens, and Hussie has failed me! Crucify the dudebro!" The truth is that it was mostly your idiotic friends, who gravely misinformed you as to the nature of the comic, who caused you to be disappointed. If your expectations for a sexism-, racism-, ablism-, and Western culture- and Christianity-free comic have been dashed, you have absolutely no one to blame but them. Say what you will about Hussie (I think he's a bit of a prick) but it's not like he has ever advertised the story as being -ism-free in any way.

I just wish the fandom had more people who could just fucking accept already that the canon has various strengths and weaknesses, without coming to the table with absurdly inflated expectations of its progressivism and sex-positivism and what the fuck ever. Then maybe people wouldn't be so angry about how Homestuck is RUINED FOREVER and the most MISOGYNIST WORK EVER after every single fucking update, and they might be able to actually accept the problematic aspects of the canon along with the good. I am not saying that critiquing a work with a progressive lens is a bad thing. It's not, I like to do it sometimes, and it serves a good purpose. But it's annoying to constantly see nothing but criticisms of how the comic fails to live up to this or that standard when the standards for criticism are based on a perception of the canon which isn't even close to being grounded in reality. It's one thing to criticize a problematic work with a progressive lens while holding realistic expectations as to how the work tackles certain issues; it's quite another to criticize a problematic work with a progressive lens while holding unrealistic expectations of how the work tackles certain issues. The latter can potentially yield insightful comments if done thoughtfully; the former is only masturbatory nonsense.

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Re: Rant: people need to lower their expectations for Homestuck already

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 15th, 2011 07:15 pm (UTC)
Link

The complaints I see don't seem like they're saying it's worse than all other media. It's that it's being just as bad or that they expected better.

Also, some of us were evangelized with cool female characters pre-Hivebent. Before you see the outcome of things, it's easy to assume it's going to go in a direction you'll like. We're now pretty far into the story, and that changes perceptions.

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Re: Rant: people need to lower their expectations for Homestuck already

from: anonymous
date: Aug. 15th, 2011 10:05 pm (UTC)
Link

Tl;dr version: You're not allowed to criticize things that are problematic, because if you are you're implying that you expected them to be Correct in the first place which makes you stupid.

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