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Sep. 12th, 2010 | 03:37 pm

CHAT ANONYMOUSLY ABOUT STUFF: General Anon Meme


It is what all the cool memes are doing nowadays!

The only rule is, don't be a total passive-aggressive douche. This isn't the place to spew all your vitriolic unrequited blackrom feelings for other members of of our dear fandom--or if you can't resist, at least don't mention them by name, that shit is just a little too petty. If it gets out of hand I'll ban you so fast Karkat would be impressed.

Other than that, hop to it, anons. And TITLE YOUR THREADS it could get pretty confusing all up in here if you didn't!



PS, as one kind anon pointed out, if you want to see the comments in chronological order instead of thread format, put ?view=flat after html in the URL. Or click here, whatever.
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(no subject)

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 13th, 2011 11:03 pm (UTC)
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I don't think they're actually they're names, but they're still what I'll use in fic because I feel uncomfortable making up names for canon characters.

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(no subject)

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 13th, 2011 11:04 pm (UTC)
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Oops, "their names", bluh.

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Re: Shipping

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 14th, 2011 01:22 am (UTC)
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They get to feel superior and like they're the "better fan," basically. And whenever they find someone who agrees with their toxicity, they wind up feeling vindicated.

There are also counts of people just being over-invested in certain characters or pairings, identifying with them too closely, or just being bigots (though I think that number is, luckily, smaller), but the superiority is probably a major driving force.

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Re: Shipping

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 14th, 2011 02:02 am (UTC)
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Let's not forget that Homestuck is so wanky even talking other people being wanky has to be done in an inflammatory manner tailor made to anger people on the other side, ensuring the cycle continues endlessly.

The real issue is this fandom is fucking psychotic.

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Re: Shipping

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 14th, 2011 02:25 am (UTC)
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to be honest, you ought to take a good hard look at yourself if you're feeling offended by that post because those are all really despicable behaviours and if you're indignant there is probably something about them that rings true for some of your actions

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Re: Shipping

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 14th, 2011 02:48 am (UTC)
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See, that's what I was referring to.

Anyone who disagrees must be just as despicable, because that's the only reason to disagree with it! That's why there's wank everywhere, because people on both sides make absolutist statements and take any sign of dissent as a sign it's an enemy who must be engaged.

There's been wankers trying to drive out ships because they hate them. And there's been wankers starting shit even here over the idea someone doesn't like their ship, or doesn't like how some of the authors write it, or mentions some legitimate, non-wanky issue with it. Kanaya wank is not all the fault of the evil, overidentifying LGBT crusaders, there's people frothing at the mouth about how she should be with a guy. Just because someone bashed your ship doesn't mean the shippers going nuts over some other stupid thing isn't wank too.

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Re: Shipping

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 14th, 2011 03:16 am (UTC)
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I've seen it, just most of them are only saying it, not saying it after their 700 words ~disproving~ whatever the fuck. Because Kanaya being a lesbian isn't in the comic, I've seen people argue it isn't actually canon.

And I do think who he ships Kanaya with is as relevant. His reasons with Kanaya are just as bad, he doesn't ship her with girls because she's interested in girls, he ships all the girls with all the other girls but doesn't want them to be actual lesbians because actual lesbians don't want to have sex with him.

...and there, too, he's not exactly the only one to do that. It's just he's the one who made an idiot out of himself so obviously.

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Re: Shipping

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 14th, 2011 03:24 am (UTC)
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How thoughtful of you to invite the strawmen to our party.

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Re: Shipping

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 14th, 2011 04:27 am (UTC)
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what? i did not say any of those things. i did not even say that it was a particularly well-thought-out or complete list of bad reasons why people fight, just that if you're gettign defensive at those strawmen you need to ask yourself why. i'm very sure that those are real reasons why people decide to engage others, and none of them are okay. most of it does come down to overidentifying with characters and general intolerance of what other people like.

there are outliers like this john/karkat guy who keeps being brought up (i don't even know who he is, really) but the majority are not like that, and we need to stop associating ships with character traits and beliefs and a few really loud terrible people.

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Re: Shipping

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 14th, 2011 02:03 pm (UTC)
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In addition to the really valid points above that I see all the time, I agree with the hypothesis going around that Homestuck is a "first fandom" for a lot of its members, and they haven't necessarily learned fandom etiquette yet. You're not entitled to fic of your pairing, nor to the eradication of your most disliked ship.

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Re: Shipping

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 14th, 2011 02:39 pm (UTC)
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Must be a case of mistaken identity, because I as well see these arguments made nearly word-for-word all the time. Hell, if you really feel like trawling backwards through homestucksecrets that far you'll find at least half of them right there.

These impostors aren't the strawmen! Poor dears must not have received their invitation.

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Re: Shipping

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 14th, 2011 04:59 pm (UTC)
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I agree. I've seen things going on that where my response would be tell them to stop trolling so badly because no one would fall for that, you have to at least sound a bit believable, and they were actually sincere. And a lot of fandom has tumblr accounts, and tumblr is one of the most wanky fandom spaces these days, so when new fans do try to fit in with accepted behavior, that's their benchmark. /co/ is better behaved!

There was this weird blowup over on the carapace meme, if all places, where not only did someone order the OP out of fandom for a completely innocent prompt, but later admitted to it unanon on their tumblr and was confused by why people weren't all agreeing with them.

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Re: Shipping

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 14th, 2011 07:06 pm (UTC)
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this forever. i mean, anyone remember the initial reaction to romarts on the forums way back? that, to me, has always been a very strong indication that this is the first fandom for a lot of its fans. i mean, if they're weirded out by shipping so innocent as what was allowed to be posted back then? they must be new. i think that's also why there's so much porn and kink shaming re pornarts. because people haven't realized that fandom's gonna fandom no matter what characters are involved.

but i guess that makes sense. there can't be many webcomics that get a fandom this large, with activities along the lines of what are more usually associated with anime/mange/video game/tv show fandoms. most of the people who started reading homestuck, at least initially, were probably from this webcomics crowed and not the more typical fandom crowd. then homestuck grew a fandom that wasn't like a normal webcomic fandom simply because it itself isn't like a normal webcomic. then the webcomic fan types by association got sucked into this sort of fandom they're not used to. if that any of that makes sense.

this more applies to the earlier stages of homestuck fandom though i guess. since it's gotten so big a lot of people from fandom in general have been getting into it lately, so obviously they have all of the usual knowledge of and expectations for how the fandom is going to work.

but with that said i still think it's valid to say that a lot of fans are new to fandom, even now, because it seems to me that that's still the case, just by looking around.

a-accidental miniessay, whoops.

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Re: Shipping

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 14th, 2011 07:35 pm (UTC)
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I believe we have also had our share of "strawmen" on this very meme. I'm not going to go into the John/Karkat argument threads to find some because I can't stand reading that shit anymore, but I'd eat my shoes if no one could find any of the listed problems in any of them. Also, I distinctly remember one anon who said het and male/male ought to be banned from the kink meme so that female/female could prosper without being crowded out by stuff she didn't like. That same thread also included goodies like "women writing slash and male POVs are inherently bad/misogynist." They might not be worded as simply as the arguments in the post--and might be loaded with feminist buzzwords here because I think we are mostly a community of women insterested in social justice--but there is no doubt that once you strip them down to their knickers they bear a remarkable resemblance to these so-called strawmen.

You might also want to ask this person (captchalogue.livejournal.com/938.html?thread=1763498#t1763498) about how fake and non-aggressive these people actually are.

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Re: Shipping

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 14th, 2011 08:51 pm (UTC)
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Da

People have said that shit, but not all members of the group reflect the worst outliers. Identifying with John doesn't mean you fly off the handle over John being portrayed as gay. Disliking Kanaya shipped with guys doesn't mean you're in it because you want to pat yourself on the back. As much as I hate people going off on yaoi fangirls, it's not just a matter of hating homosexuality or women there. And some people can't stand Tavros/Vriska or Eridan/Feferi pairings because the shippers do treat it as glorifying abuse, and that is a bad thing and should be brought up. The poster didn't say that the wank was from the particular people behaving badly, they insinuated everyone in the group was a bad person with bad reasons for having those opinions.

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Re: Shipping

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 14th, 2011 09:03 pm (UTC)
Link

The real problem is that it's a combination of older fans who were in small, isolated fandoms or none at all, and newbies. The people wanking madly over two characters drawn in the same image were not completely unfamiliar with fandom but people who'd been enough in fandom to think there were established fandom rules you shouldn't do things like romart, let alone porn.

The established fans here are incredibly wanky and intolerant of other groups, and they're really rigid about their way being the only right way. It's why the main forums kept blowing up. Younger fans are always going to be diverse, outspoken and prove to getting in fights over things. Instead of the older fans calming things down and providing stability, they start fights, throw their weight around and alienate the younger ones. It's the worst of both worlds.

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Re: Shipping

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 14th, 2011 09:40 pm (UTC)
Link

Honestly, I think a good proportion of Homestuck fandom is populated by people who otherwise wouldn't be in fandom at all. We have our share of dudebros, for instance, but they don't behave at all in the way I'm accustomed to fandom dudebros behaving. Fandom dudebros are a lot more focused on ships (yes, more than ours), a lot louder and less euphemistic about loathing slash, and a lot less reserved about telling fangirls what they should and should not be allowed to do with their sexuality or everything else. But Homestuck's dudebro fen have this pseudointellectual streak I would ordinarily associate with Something Awful or the TV Tropes fora - in other words, the kinds of guys who treat fandom as a waste of time and intellect, and when they do get involved in something, they have to make sure you know just how Cerebral they're being about it. (Even our favorite Tumblr ranter is a sterling example of this phenomenon - observe how he frames his disdain for slash as being invested in making sure other people write Good Fanfic.)

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Re: Shipping

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 14th, 2011 10:12 pm (UTC)
Link

I thought it would be obvious that, if you realise other people are allowed to like stuff you don't, and you don't angrily spout off your opinions where they are not wanted or harass anybody, I wasn't talking about you.

I don't care if you hate everything I love, you're free to do that, just don't be a dick about it. You ARE bad if you go after people who don't deserve it or make sweeping statements about the entire group, and you should shut up. You are not contributing anything worthwhile to your cause by getting angry at fans for shipping. This ESPECIALLY goes for the "it's not canon" complaint because they don't even have a fucking reason to get offended, unlike those who hate Tavros/Vriska and Kanaya/guys (tbh the second has shades of it--shipping has never been known to pay attention to canon sexualities--but I understand that it's coming from a real concern about queer portrayal in media at least).

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Re: Shipping

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 14th, 2011 10:35 pm (UTC)
Link

DA

This! I definitely agree that who he ships Kanaya with is pretty important, because no matter how much pseudo-intellectual crap he spouts it comes down to lesbian fetishization coupled with a poorly-concealed hatred of fic featuring gay dudes.

Which, I mean, if you don't like slash you don't like slash. But when you are so strenuously against pairing John with a guy without 100,000 words "justifying" it or whatever but are okay with the idea of pairing Kanaya against her Word-of-God sexuality, it says more about you than the quality of the fics you hate.

May I just say that I am very impressed with the calm tone of everybody in this discussion thus far? I really hope I didn't just jinx it.

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Re: Shipping

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 14th, 2011 11:10 pm (UTC)
Link

IT OFFENDS ME THAT YOU APPROVE OF OUR CALMNESS!!!!!!!! YOU'RE A JOHNKAT YAOIBEAST AREN'T YOU????????

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Re: Shipping

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 14th, 2011 11:16 pm (UTC)
Link

thank you anon for making me just lose my shit cackling

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Re: Shipping

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 14th, 2011 11:54 pm (UTC)
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If you're saying that's where the wank comes from, it's annoying to anyone who feels similar without trying to kick people out of fandom and has seen plenty of wank coming from politely disliking it. Just look at the thread about the evil Karkat/Terezi haters for...pointing out a problem with how Karkat and Terezi are written and talking about Karkat/Terezi fic they'd like to read.

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Exchanges

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 15th, 2011 12:26 am (UTC)
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What are we doing? I know of ladystuck, is there going to be a regular exchange like last year or is that it?

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Re: Exchanges

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 15th, 2011 06:43 am (UTC)
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Haven't seen anything else mentioned yet, so I don't think there are any plans for it.

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(no subject)

from: anonymous
date: Sep. 15th, 2011 09:41 am (UTC)
Link

That I don't have a problem with. It's more when people treat it like a nickname that's been shortened from something similar, and it usually ends up sounding really unnatural to me.

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