Mayor of Meme Town - ==>

Well, I like knowing people are reading as I go since I worry if I'm doing it right or communicating properly, but I can see your point too. (I guess you could post saying they shouldn't feel obligated to give reviews like that but people are touchy as hell about that kind of thing and it'd probably just blow up.)

Keep in mind that Trolls at least have auspictices so that Kismetic relationships won't go to far(like Vriska plunging Tavros off a cliff) and that they would leave their kismestic relations with only one other troll.

With Snowman/Slick, BQ/Jack we do have serious hurt going on, without any auspistice involved. We have murders, mutilations, theft, humiliation, treason, etc.

Well, it depends. I think the thread here on the matter established we're not really clear on what auspictices do. But going from the recap

When two trolls are locked in a feud or some otherwise contentious relationship, one can intervene and become their AUSPISTICE. The auspistice mediates between the two, playing the role of a peace keeper, preventing the feud from boiling over into a fully caliginous rivalry.

Since such lesser feuds are quite common among trolls, there is a significant need for auspisticing parties. Without them, too many ashen feuds would become caliginous, and begin to conflict with other exclusive kismesis relationships, leading to a great deal of social complexity and sore feelings (even more so than black romance usually involves). Without auspisticism, the result would be widespread black infidelity

So they don't need an auspistice for kismesis, only to prevent kismesis.

Word of god is also that Vriska is just messed up socially, I don't think her relationship with Tavros is a good example of how kismesis should work.

And I disagree about healthy kismesis relationships not involving others. The trolls don't seem to care. Vriska/Eridan seemed to involve a massive death toll and Eridan talks about strong kismesis relationships as involving even more massive death tolls. And for another...again, BQ/Jack is listed as the perfect example of a kismesis, so it makes more sense to say that the way they act is how kismesis is supposed to work than to guess at how kismesis works and then say they aren't doing it properly when they differ. If humiliating him with outfits or him committing treason weren't proper kismesis things, the trolls wouldn't see it as a dead-ringer for that relationship.

(Plus violence seems normal for them. The MC murders their way through most of the Felt, so violence inside a relationship based around violence doesn't seem that striking.)

That was violence with each other, not toward each other. Eridan doesn't try to kill Vriska. They are FLARP rivals competing but still working with each other.

Kanaya is stated to be Vriska and Tavros's auspistice, possibly because Vriska already has Eridan as a kismesis. However she is also Vriska's morail which also prevents trolls from becoming too violent and dangerous.

The point is, Trolls have things to hold themselves together so that they don't, you know, murder/rape/traumatize anyone for the sake of romance. BQ/Jack don't, and when given the opportunity to kill BQ, Jack took it.

However I wonder how much the BQ/Jack relationship has altered by the time it's Slick and Snowman. They went from rivalry to being very close to murdering each other and taking things away from one another that were precious.

and I usually use a beta for that sort of feedback, so if I end up having to completely change a plot point because it isn't working, then I can without worrying about it breaking any of the plot stuff I've already posted. there's advantages and disadvantages for both ways, but since I'm a bit of a perfectionist, I prefer to be complete before I post. it means the occasional thing doesn't end up finished, but it also means that the stuff I post is just more consistent and has proper foreshadowing and all the the little bits that bother me when they're not done right.

(yeah. and some people read "don't feel like you need to leave reviews" as a passive-aggressive way of calling people out for not leaving reviews. so you're screwed no matter what you say)

as long as it involves femSlick riding manSnowman like she stole it, I'm good with that swap

I think she's awake now, unless she has computer access in the dead dreamland for some bizarre reason.

They were also less than six sweeps old and Eridan got dumped, so it seems easier to assume that Vriska just wasn't that into him than that their relationship was a better example of it than the one we're explicitly told is the perfect example. The troll kids are mostly examples of what not to do in a relationship. Karkat's obliviousness isn't a good example of a matesprit either.

It hasn't been stated anywhere that kismesis relationships aren't dangerous, so again, the easier way to go with this conflict is to say what happened with BQ/Jack is either how the relationship works or at least compatible with it. If betrayal wasn't fine in kismesis, the trolls wouldn't have seen their Jack as being in that relationship. Killing might be a bad outcome, but I don't think it's incompatible with kismesis relationships, especially when the weaker one suddenly gets a lot of power.

I might run something past a particular person, but for me it's about if most readers get what I mean, so just a beta wouldn't be enough for me to be sure, I'd want to see what most people say.

(And some people will take you at your word, but then they're decide you're elitist for saying anything. You really can't win!)

Everybody has already posted a bunch of stuff I agree with so I'll just post the few things I haven't seen here that I think about a lot

- There's no such thing as a civilian in Skaia. There are people who are explicitly soldiers and they march in the armies, and then there's everyone else, and underneath whatever their main imprint is (bureaucrat, baker, mail lady, etc) they've got the know-how to turn almost anything into a weapon. The war can end up being fought anywhere, not just on the Battlefield, and every single last pawn needs to be ready to go to war if the tide turns and Prospit or Derse ends up invaded, or the White King's scepter is spirited away to one of the Lands, or some other unforeseen scenario. It's just one of the many ways that Skaia keeps the game from coming to a grinding halt if the players try something unexpected.

- Daytime in the desert is hardest on black carapaces since their shells hold in all the heat and cook them alive, while white reflects a lot of that heat and comes out alright. But nighttime is worse on the white carapaces since they lose all that heat to the cold night and freeze to death, while black carapaces have that little extra heat soaked into them to keep them going at night.

- There's usually a lot of black vs white violence in the desert, espeically if a pack of one color comes across another. Programming is hard to get over, especially when the other side may be the reason you're out in the desert. But at the same time, there's not as much violence as you would think, since the desert is full of dissidents and traitors and people who already overcame some of their programming in order to realize that the war was bullshit. So for every act of violence over which side of the war somebody used to be on, there's another carapace offering a helping hand to someone they've just come across, irregardless of color

- There are probably two different societies that rise up in exiled worlds. There are the occasional cities, built by guys like Slick who want a stable lifestyle in one location with buildings and streets and the trappings of a modern society. But then there are the nomads who don't want to settle down and don't trust life in a city and prefer to crawl over the desert where they're always the masters of their own fate. They're probably the main reason the cities keep existing, since the nomads find raw supplies while out in the desert and bring them into the city to trade for finished goods.

I'm not sure if Vriska dumping Eridan is comparable to Jack killing BQ honestly, or Snowman ripping off Slick's arm and blinding him in an eye.

If a kissmetude has gone to far, even in troll standards, you know it's something a little different going on.

I didn't mean it was comparable. Pretty much the opposite. Vriska's relationship with Eridan wasn't a real kismesistude because she wasn't actually that into him and dumped him.

Well, here's the thing: We know BQ/Jack are rivals and hate each other. But does that mean they want to bang each other at the same time?

I remember back when we first saw [S]Jack:Ascend, a lot of people thought that they were the same BQ/Jack as Slick and Snowman, but it did disturb me a lot that some people still shipped them(both Jack/BQ and Slick/Snowman even though they are different characters but not many people thought so at the time) even though one of them murdered the other. This was back before the concept of kismestude even entered Andrew's head.

We know BQ/Jack are rivals and hate each other. But does that mean they want to bang each other at the same time?

No, but the fact we also know they're kismesises, which means they're more than just rivals who hate each other, does.

They're not really different characters. The Jack who becomes Jackspers and the Jack who becomes Slick start off as the same person, they only diverge based on what the players do. BQ and Jack's relationship is likely a constant part of the starting conditions of the game.

I remember back when we first saw [S]Jack:Ascend, a lot of people thought that they were the same BQ/Jack as Slick and Snowman, but it did disturb me a lot that some people still shipped them(both Jack/BQ and Slick/Snowman even though they are different characters but not many people thought so at the time) even though one of them murdered the other.

Why is it wrong to ship them after Jack murdered BQ and yet it was okay back when Snowman mutilated Slick and locked him in the vault to bleed to death?

People ship enemies all the time, including enemies that have done horrible things to each other. It's common.

Agreed on this, especially the bit about there being no civilians. Anyone might be needed as part of the way, so everyone has to have the ability, even if they never use it in their normal life.

Hoo fucking ray, another straight relationship.

Yeah I know it's called Foe Yay, but maybe I'm just reading too many undertones beneath this that suggest something more sinister beneath it that we aren't consciously aware of but permeates a dark part of our own society.

Besides, this whole kismestude thing almost seems like some kind of joke in on itself. I know it's alien romance, but it's alien romance written by a human in a satirical manner.

I'm hoping that there's nothing but friendship (if that) between them, and Future!Karkat's just fucking with his past self. In the conversation where he tells Jade to contact him after her dreambot explodes he doesn't seem to be waxing flushed for her at all, and that can't have been long before this.

(And if he is serious? Putting in my guess right now that an 'hour' for a troll is a totally different amount of time than it is for a human.)

It depends on the length. If it's something that would be a long chaptered story if/when they put it up somewhere else I'm fine with (and expect) chapters to just go up at they're finished. Sometimes there might be a long wait between parts and sometimes they might never be finished, but that's what I expect from fanfiction.

But if the complete story is only a few comments long? I'd rather they wait until it's done.

I don't think this is going to be requited, as much as I ship it. Probably just something that'll be good for a few jokes then mostly forgotten, as much as John/Karkat was. Yes I am well aware that this is missing the point, but I don't really know what else can be said.

I was thinking more of a situation where someone writes part of a story but isn't ever going to finish. Should they still post that, if what they do have is substantial?

Yeah, it's a bit disappointing that four out of the five troll crushes are het so far. But Equius was getting off talking to Dave and Karkat's lip obsession might mean he's got a crush on Dave too, and there are still a lot of other trolls who need to chat with the kids. Maybe Sollux will declare his flushed intentions for Dave, or Feferi will turn out to have a crush on Jade.

Have you read the average romance novel? The whole bodice-ripper genre has a much better claim to having sinister...well, I wouldn't even call it undertones, it's not that subtle.

Fandom shipping is pretty reasonable in comparison.

yeah I know :\

it is getting a little annoying when you've got 12 CANONICALLY PANSEXUAL MAIN CHARACTERS and most of the matesprit feelings are STILL just between boys and girls

urrgh come on hussie this is starting to look kinda bad

Hmm, I'm not really seeing it. Sure Dave and Current Karkat are teasing Future Karkat about it. That's kind of what they do, though. They're dicks like that. Whereas Future Karkat is just being a buddy to Jade because...they're friends by that point in time. Wow this sounds like a lot of denial, haha. It probably is because I'm getting sick of SO MUCH ROMANCE.